Basically, the consumable price will be cut in half in 0.8.6 – but beware, it’s not forever, only until the 0.8.7 (this is a bit of a trolling from WG, because 0.8.7 will contain British arty and will allegedly come very soon after 0.8.6).
Keep in mind that selling prices will be cut in half also, eg. if you have gold consumables now and want to get rid of them, do that before 0.8.6 comes out.
- Q: “Are you afraid that we the people will get angry if our wishes to nerf arty will not be heard?” A: “Megalomania is bad. Take care of yourself.”
- SerB on large caliber artillery shells ricocheting from thin surfaces: “Yes well, 8 inch naval shells did ricochet from the 25mm thick cruiser armor plates, so?” (SS: some players suspect Wargaming of somehow screwing with ricochets for HEAT arty shells by disabling overmatch)
- HEAT ricochet angle is 80 degrees, regular ricochet is 70 degrees
- there are enough Soviet heavies for 7 whole branches, but there are no plans to introduce that many
- while the accounts for WoT, WoWp and WoWs will be unified, this doesn’t count for clans, clans won’t be unified
- in 0.8.6, the bush camo principle will remain the same, because “it was a better solution” (SS: the new bush camo mechanism was bugged as hell)
- the camo system will be overhauled completely, but not soon
- Q: “In connection witht he premium ammo nerf, will the top 59-16 gun be buffed?” A: “Don’t play with the 59-16 top gun”
- client physics demonstration: “when it’s done it’s done”
- the devs are trying not to implement skills/perks, that would work with the same effect as the main skill (SS: for example a perk, that would decrease reloading time, which is the effect of the main skill of the loader)
- nation-specific skills/perks might be implemented, but not at this moment
- Vickers MBT and Vijayanta (SS: improved Indian licensed Vickers MBT copy)? “No comment”
- improved Chinese Type 59 with additional armor and new gun won’t be implemented, current Type 59′s are enough
- “modern” maps (SS: with modern architecture for example) are specifically avoided by the developers
- SerB on “free to win” principle “In our game, gold doesn’t give any advantage in battle. In levelling, it does. And it will continue to do so. Nothing I can help with.” As for the difference between gold- and silver-trained crews, SerB states: “You can always train your crew in battle. If you are lazy, nothing I can help with.” He answers the same for module unlocking – can be unlocked thru free or regular XP.
- water has no effect on shells whatsoever, some effect will be added but not soon
- you won’t lose by ramming a dead tank. If you feel like you lost some HP by doing that, you probably rammed the tank while it was still alive and the messages arrived in wrong order
- assist bonus for potential damage won’t be implemented (SerB: “I am waiting for the time when players will ask for bonus just for downloading the game”)
- no plans for 4 man platoons
- no mods as such will be implemented into the client. SerB states WG might “borrow” some ideas however.
- Deadeye perk will affect engine fire chance, but only indirectly (by increasing the chance to hit the engine), doesn’t increase the engine fire chance itself.
- the rapid fire autocannons have decreased chance to cause engine fires to compensate for the fact any hit can cause engine fire
SerB explains: “A shell hits the engine module, a “saving throw” is thrown (without that the game would be unplayable, veterans remember the 0.4.0 patch) – eg. the damage is dealt to the engine with some amount of probability. With each damage dealt to the engine above certain threshold, the engine can catch on fire. The engine below 50 percent health will turn yellow and on 0 it will turn red. This is the connection between crits and engine fires – the module damage.”
- premium vehicles do not correspond to the stock vehicles of the same tier – they are somewhat better than that, but elite vehicles of the same tier have to be better
Bonus: World of Tanks for Xbox game footage (for some reason, the sound is not working for me, not sure it’s on my side)
Today, we are going to have a look at some of the interesting Hungarian armor pieces. Obviously, it would be logical to start with the Turán, or the Toldi tanks, but are a bit boring :) We’ll get to them at some point later.
Hungarian branch will most likely be a part of the European tank tree, as the Toldi and Turán tanks were one of the few EU-nations tanks that have actually seen combat (although with mixed results). Hungarian tank history is quite interesting (again, I’ll get to that in some other article), but roughly it can be said that despite the attempts to build a decent tank force in WW2, Hungarian tanks and assault guns (based mostly on the Czechovak and Swedish designs, mixed with some imported German Panzer III and IV’s) were obsolete by the time they arrived to the Hungarian army (Honvédség). Despite the Hungarian attempts to bring the vehicles up to date (at some point blocked by Germans), a combination of obsolete vehicles and bad supply lines let to the massive destruction of Hungarian armor on Russian river Don – a defeat the army never really recovered from. Hungarian army however knew full well that their vehicles are not up to date and tried (sometimes desperately) to do something with it.
Hungarian armor in World of Tanks
Hungary can basically build a branch up to tier 7 (if we combine the TD and light/medium tank branches). It would look something like this:
T1 – Straussler tanks
T2 – Toldi I/II light tank
T3 – Toldi III light tank
T4 – T-21/Turán I medium tank
T5 – Turán II/III medium tank, Zrinyi I/II
T6 – ????
T7 – 44M Tas, Tas Rohamlöveg
And that’s it I am afraid. I haven’t found any tank project for tier 8+ – that of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist, but it’s practically impossible to find any data on anything else outside of Hungary, so I hope Wargaming will do some serious research.
44M Tas
By 1943 two things were clear to everyone, except possibly the biggest optimists: the first one was that the Germans are in deep trouble in Russia – and the second one was that Hungarian armor is no longer capable of taking care of the newest Soviet tanks, appearing en masse on the battlefields of Russia. Especially the swarms of T-34 tanks plagued the tired Hungarian tankers, who tried to hold them off with their 40mm equipped Turáns (that alone was quite a feat by itself).
In May 1943, a German delegation led by general Leeb did visit Hungary, to inspect the state of Hungarian armor development and to share some knowledge, gained from the fighting. The result was a joint project offer from the Germans to work on certain vehicles. In German eyes, Hungary would manufacture and supply certain parts, which would then be assembled in Germany and exported back to Hungary. Needless to say, Hungarian officers were not very happy about this – from an independent nation, Hungary would become totally dependent on German supplies (and will), when it came to armor. That was unacceptable for two reasons: one was bad experiences with German cooperation (Turán production was delayed several times in the past due to shortages of German equipment), second was that with such a program, Hungary would effectively become Germany’s vassal state. Hungarians scrapped this idea immediately.
Earlier that year (in April 1943), Hungarian committee, led by colonel Nádas, visited Germany and inspected some of the armor factories. They witnessed the Panther and Tiger production and were impressed. However, by that time, the mass production of Tigers and Panthers was effectively just started, the vehicles suffered from several flaws (which were rectified only later) and it was also clear that Hungarian armor industry is in no shape to license-produce Panthers or Tigers, those tanks were simply way too sophisticated. Another idea of the committee was to actually license-produce the Panzer IV (with which the Hungarian crews were relatively happy). This too was turned down, because the army staff argued that Panzer IV is not THAT much better than Hungary’s current tanks and it’s simply not worth doing.
These endless talks led the army to commission the development of an entirely new and locally built heavy tank from Hungarian components. It was named “Tas” (possibly after a Hungarian warlord from 9th century) and designed in cooperation with the Weiss Manfréd company, that was also supposed to be responsible for its production. It was loosely based on the Turán construction and on the paper, it was actually pretty good. Massive welded frontal armor (100-120mm sloped) paired with a powerful gun (75mm KwK L/70) made a powerful combination. Two types of guns were actually planned: the original German-built KwK 42 from Panther and a Hungarian developed 43M 75mm gun. The vehicle was propelled by two 260hp Turán engines and manned by a crew of five (resembling the Panther).
Tas was introduced to the Honvédség command staff on 30.7.1943, with August reserved for partial improvements. The army approved the building of two prototypes – one made from classical (non-armor) steel and one completely armored. The mild steel prototype was built first in the first half of 1944 in the Weiss Manfréd company, but it was never finished. Allegedly, the hull was ready with transmission and engine installed and the project was waiting for a turret, when the factory was bombed on 27.7.1944 by Americans. The prototype was completely destroyed. The development was moved to the Ganz factory, where the already manufactured parts were redirected to. It is unknown what happened from July to December with these parts, but in December 1944, all development and manufacture in the factory was stopped – and that was the end of the project, which was not pursued further.
Characteristics:
(in the brackets: Panther D statistics for comparison)
Crew: 5 (5)
Weight: 38 tons (44,8)
Lenght: 9,2 meters (8,66)
Width: 3,5 meters (3,27)
Height: 3 meters (2,99)
Engine: 2x Turán, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
Armor
Frontal: 100-120mm (80)
Sides: 50mm (40)
Turret frontal: 100mm (100)
Turret sides: 100mm (45)
Turret rear: 50mm (45)
Armament: 75mm KwK 42 or 75mm 43M (the same)
Speed: 45km/h (55km/h)
In World of Tanks
44M Tas is tier 7 material. Although classified as a “heavy” tank, it is lighter than the medium Panther and definitely nowhere near as heavy as the Tiger. As you can see, it is more heavily armored than the Panther, but lacks its sophisticated weaponry and most likely optics too. What we have here is a medium/heavy hybrid. While its firepower would be quite low for tier 7 (150mm pen, unless it gets some unhistorical gun), the nicely angled armor would allow it to actually hold its own. The engines are a problem, but historically, Hungarians negotiated with Germans over purchasing the HL230 700hp Panther D engines. With 700hp, this 38 ton vehicle would have a decent mobility, compensating for the gun. I can see it working, possibly as a brawler.
Tas Rohamlöveg
Tas Röhamloveg was a tank destroyer project, developed along with the 44M Tas tank, based on the same chassis. It was started in 1944, when some of the officers involved in the 44M Tas design came up with an idea that it wouldn’t be actually bad to start a project of a heavy tank destroyer along with the tank development. They were influenced no doubt by the successes of such German vehicles, that were not only extremely deadly, but also cheaper to build than regular tanks. Their silhouette was also lower, they were harder to spot, easier to set an ambush with and generally suitable for the defensive warfare both the German and Hungarian armies found themselves in.
The project was (not very originally) named Tas Rohamlöveg (“Tas assault gun”). The turret was removed from the design and the (very low) chassis was built to somewhat resemble the dreaded Jagdpanther. While the lower frontal plate (usually covered by terrain) was 20mm, the massive frontal plate was 120mm thick and very well angled. The vehicle was planned with the German 88mm KwK 43 L/71, capable to knock out any allied tank – and two machineguns.
Just like the tank, this vehicle was supposed to be built by Weiss Manfréd. Two prototypes were ordered, but beyond that, little is known of the project. Some sources say that some parts were ordered and even manufactured, but no prototype was ever built due to the same air raid, that knocked out the Tas production.
Characteristics:
(in the brackets: Jagdpanther statistics for comparison)
Crew: 5 (5)
Weight: 38 tons (45,5)
Lenght: 9,5 meters (9,87)
Width: 3,9 meters (3,8)
Height: 2,3 meters (2,72)
Engine: 2x Turán, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
Armor
Frontal: 120mm (80)
Sides: 50mm (50)
Armament: 88mm PaK 43 (the same)
Speed: 45km/h (55km/h)
In World of Tanks
As you can see, it’s much like the Jagdpanther, but lower, sleeker, apparently with better camo factor, possibly more agile (lighter) with the same engine, but with the original 520hp you can’t expect miracles. The drawback would be the missing 105mm gun and thus somewhat lower firepower. Still, considering how cool it looks… I’d play it even if it was worse in all respects :)
SS: Today, we have another guest article from SoukouDragon :) Enjoy
Author: SoukouDragon, US forums
A new light tank designed for the Imperial Japanese army. It was to carry with it the same firepower as the Chi Ha Shinhoto and have 300mm wide treads. The 150hp engine was supercharged. Main armament was the Type 1 47mm tank gun. Since it was expected to use its cannon often, 90 rounds was required.
In world of tanks, its 15 hp/ton is grossly outmatched by the other tier 5 light tanks which have over 25hp/ton. Even with 300mm wide tracks on the 10 ton tank, it is difficult to imagining the Ke Ho to have similar acceleration with the other tier 5 light tanks. The diesel 150hp engine is an in-line 6 cylinder engine. Even though the Chi He tank is of similar dimensions to the Ke Ho but a little longer, the Chi He’s 240hp V12 diesel engine would probably be too large to serve as an upgrade even though 240hp would probably provide enough hp/ton.
The 47mm cannon would be comparable to the 50mm L/60 on the VK 1602 Leopard. The combat weight of the Type 1 47mm cannon is about 400kg. With about just 140kg more, the experimental 57mm cannon that was tested on the early Chi To could perhaps be fitted on as an upgrade. That would give the Ke Ho competitive firepower amongst the tier 5 light tanks.
Experimental 57mm Tank Gun (L48.5)
Combat Weight: 543kg
Muzzle velocity: 810m/s
Type 1 AP round
Penetration: 60mm at 1,000m
Source:
“Japan’s Tanks” by Hara Tomio 1978(日本の戦車 原乙未生)
“Japanese Army Cannons: Infantry cannons, anti-tank cannons” by Sayama Jiro (日本陸軍の火砲 歩兵砲 対戦車砲 他 佐山二郎)
several people asked me yesterday, how does one “fix” random battles when the matchmaking takes the players from the entire server. It shouldn’t be possible to do, right?
So just a quick description how this works. Next time there is some competition (you know, like the one for 0.8.5 – top XP gainers from each class etc.), check on how many of the victors are clanners and how many of representatives of those clans are present.
Of course, it could mean such clans are simply that great… or it could mean something else entirely.
How to do it
Here’s an example of a fixed battle (thanks to Rasan and his clanmate):
Link to replay (version 0.8.2): http://wotreplays.com/site/225264#ensk-guest-amx_13_90
Here you can see a typical (albeit lowtier) example of fixing battles. Several friends (this time from different clans, although Suicide Division (S-D) and Valkyria (VLK) are present on both sides) decided to allow the T1 Cunningham to get an insane XP gain.
Basically, what the culprits do is they abuse the MM mechanism for matching platoons. This works best around 4-5AM, when there are very very few players on the server. Few players means few platoons. In other words: if you suddenly create two 3 man platoons (those are rarer) and click on “battle” at the same time, you have a really high chance of ending against each other, because there will be no more 3 man platoons online at that point and the matchmaker will have no other choice than to compensate by putting your friends’ platoon against you.
This is how the jokers from the picture did it. As you can see, it’s two platoons (of different size, so I assume this was done in the early morning to ensure they would be matched against each other) and the Cunningham has 3 kills, corresponding to the first platoon – all 5 of them probably simply met somewhere and let the Cunningham kill them. Funny and harmless? Well, yes, sure, unless you are fixing a competition that way.
There are of course more sophisticated ways how to do this, leading to even “better” results (for example two clans choosing two players for the rewards, then swamping the random with various platoons at 4 AM, this way, a random player can rack up even 15 kills if both teams end up being filled with people from those two clans – hell, this is possible even in ONE clan, if it is big enough).
This phenomenon is not limited to EU server of course (remember the Russian “superplayer” in FV215b 183, who destroyed 15 tanks with 13 shots or so?) and is well known for ages, yet Wargaming does nothing against it, unless the competition winners are directly accused of cheating (I believe this has happened only once, few patches back, can’t remember the circumstances though).
Either way, I believe that the replay examination of the top winners of the “Type 59″ type competitions should be mandatory to prevent this shit from happening…
Well, I think it’s no secret that 0.8.6 for RU server is coming this Tuesday. For EU it should be either Wednesday or Thursday (Thursday more likely).
- additional info about the “Israeli” IS-3: it was used as tractor basically, it had modified engine and transmission, using the parts from T-54/55 and new cooling systems, apparently it used the original gun too, therefore it is fit to be a premium vehicle
- the T-35 premium tank won’t have the historical crew (of 11 tankists), SerB thinks it’s not necessery
- SerB states that the developers don’t deal with fixed battles and they don’t care, how many “reputation” do such posts have (SS: to explain, apparently there is a scandal on RU server, that the “random” competition prizes were being split between prominent members of several clans, leading a lot of people to the conclusion that these clanners fixed battles in order to get their hands on the prizes. And yes, this happened on EU server too in the past, I remember one case where such “teams” were stripped of their winnings and banned)
- normalization doesn’t apply on track hits
- the shell trajectory after armor penetration is not influenced by normalisation (SS: IIRC, normalisation is just a number, the actual shell trajectory is not changed by it)
- normalisation is not applied twice, when the shell goes thru a spaced armor and the main armor after that
- SerB regarding the chance of new maps to drop: “Usually the higher chance for the new map to drop is turned on for one patch, because in the next patch another new map is introduced.”
- engine can catch on fire even if it doesn’t turn “yellow”
- it’s theoretically possible for the IS-4 to have only the D-25 gun, that would shoot the current gold ammo as silver shells, but so far it’s just SerB’s personal wish, he’ll check the vehicle out
- King Tiger speed buff: “when it’s done it’s done”
- When asked about the historicity of T-50 speed, SerB states that the 64km/h speed for the T-50 is possible, it was actually archieved during factory tests
- according to SerB, SU-100Y is doing fine on its tier
- in WoWp, training crewmembers to 100 percent costs 400 gold instead of WoT 200 gold. SerB states that there are no plans for now to rise the price for WoT crew training also
- no special ingame report function for griefing by “covering the enemy from allies” (SS: probably running into the line of fire of your teammates, preventing them from shooting) is planned
- SerB like farming on KV-5
- generally (in connection with the announced “free-to-win” principle), premium tanks won’t be buffed (premium tank players have the possibility to play on regular tanks)
- regarding account hijack prevention: it is not possible to make “save checkpoints” for accounts, SerB states that when the player account database is simply copied from regular server to test server, it’s a lengthy process, it’s impossible to make such copies every day, local copy of your account data on client computers is not an option
- the bug with T29 antennae (SS: when zoomed to a certain extent towards the top turret, the camera tends to jerk to a side) will be fixed with the introduction of client physics
- the Ferdinand bolted 100mm armor plate doesn’t work as spaced armor, because there is no space between the plate and the armor itself
- the possibility to add your own music to be played within the game is not planned
- linear crewmember skill training is also not planned for WoT
- T14 gun penetration apparently won’t be buffed, nor will the gun be replaced with (unhistorical) 105mm howitzer: “If you don’t like it, don’t play it”
- SerB believes the Maus is competitive in random battles
- no plans for close future to implement “code authenticator” á la Battle.net
- the statistics “what tanks destroyed my tank” most likely won’t be implemented
- along with the server-side replays, there will apparently be a possibility to analyze, on which spots was your vehicle hit in the battle
- Sturer Emil was not considered for tier 7 premium TD
- client physics will have very little influence on the game web traffic (ping)
- Superpershing will most likely be changed to the new model in 8.7
- the new improved spall liner bonus will affect the ramming damage also
Lots of people that play WoT started crying out about HEAT needing to be removed as soon as it became available for credits. Turns out, use of HEAT shells was forbidden in the early stages of the war on the Eastern Front.
“After meeting with the general staff and divisional commanders of the 4th Panzer Group, Feldmarshal von Kluge once again asked to allow the use of “red-tipped” shells, giving the following as the reason:
“Holding back Russian tanks in an attack, particularly T-34s and heavy tanks, demands great effort on the part of our exhausted and battle-worn infantry. The existing methods of fighting T-34s and heavy tanks are insufficient. If the infantry’s load is lightened, they can resume completion of their objectives, despite their smaller numbers. ”
I can only support this request.
General von Bock”
German HEAT shells were indicated by red tips. Some sources refer to them as “PzGr rot” (Tank Grenade Red). Let’s take a look at Franz Halder’s diary, again mentioning HEAT shells.
“December 22nd, 1941. 184th day of the war.
Forces of the south flank of the 4th army, south-east of Kaluga, are encircled by the enemy, who is also advancing on Tarusy. The condition on this section of the front is grave. It is not known when this crisis can be resolved. Regardless, the order to retreat was not given. The only order given was on the use of HEAT shells. {349}
{349} Hitler still disallowed use of these new shells”
“January 11th, 1942 (Sunday). 204th day of the war.
Hitler: hold Merdyn and cover the breach in the north. Attempt to do so before the front at Merdyn wavers. Move forces from the rear. Advance with the 9th army to cover the breach at Rzhev. There is no time for preparations of defensive positions. Any time we manage to win is to be used to cover breaches in our lines. Holding Suhinichi takes priority. Should we use shells with the red tip? {407} A counterattack from the south still remains our goal.
{407} Those were the markings of a HEAT artillery shell.”
Shirokograd, in his book “Russia and Germany: a history of military cooperation” reveals the reason for this was that Hitler was protective of his shiny new shells: “In late 1941, the 7.5 cm and 10.5 cm le.G.40 received new HEAT shells, which enabled them to penetrate Soviet T-34 tanks. I must point out that the Germans had HEAT shells since 1940, but Hitler forbade their use so they did not fall into enemy hands.”
today, we are going to have a look at three vehicles, that have a relatively high chance of appearing in the European tank tree, because they formed the basis of the Czechoslovak medium tanks. Some of you might remember the Czechoslovak tank tree proposal I posted several months ago. This tree is based on Tuccy’s work – but this is one of the differences. He had these three tanks in the tree, I threw them out, since I wanted to streamline the proposal as much as possible – and small side-branches were never really that much popular. Plus, all three of these vehicles were simply… mediocre.
In the game, these vehicles would probably fit in tier 3 (T-21/22) and tier 4 (T-23M). Just a technical note: some people actually confuse the T-23 with the American tank T23 (which was earlier in World of Tanks as tier 8, before it was replaced by the Pershing). These vehicles have obviously nothing in common. Well then, let’s get to it.
Škoda T-21
Škoda T-21 (original designation was Škoda Š-IIc) was Škoda’s contribution to the IIc army category (medium tanks for general use) and a direct competitor to Praga V-8-H (the linked page, tier 4).
Basically, what happened: in the early thirties, both Praga and Škoda (main competitiors for the Czechoslovak army contracts, but also when it came to export) had several unsuccessful designs, when it came to infantry support tanks. While the light tanks (LT-35, later the LT-38) were generally good, they just couldn’t get the infantry support right. Namely, the unsuccessful attempts where the Praga P-IIb and Škoda Š-IIb. After that, the both companies basically sat together and made a joint infantry tank project, designated ŠP-IIb. It was unsuccessful for various reasons (it might make a nice Czechoslovak lowtier premium tho, I might get to it at some point too), mostly because both companies weren’t too eager to cooperate with their main competitors. Also, both companies worked on their own private attempts to build a IIb/IIc category prototypes. These private attempts would later become the Praga V-8-H and Škoda T-21.
The main design works on the T-21 began as early as September 1936. The first prototype was finished in May 1937 – and so began the long journey of this vehicle and its versions and derivates, that ended only after the war.
The first variant from May 1937 was the original Š-IIc. It was supposed to be fitted with a new engine, built especially for it by the automobile factory branch of Škoda in Mladá Boleslav, but the engine development got delayed and the prototype was (in order to save time) fitted with a 190hp 13-liter V6, originally intended for the Š-III breakthrough tank prototype. The prototype was also fitted with a mock weaponry (representing a 47mm gun and 2 machineguns). Basically, it was a disaster. The engine was not powerful enough, overheated and ate a LOT of fuel (even for that time). In September 1937, the V6 engine was removed and the original Škoda engine intended for it. The vehicle however still didn’t do too well (the engine actually seized and had to be scrapped) and the tests were stopped in November, marking the end of the 1st development stage of T-21.
By that time, the Ministry of Defence committee was looking for a suitable Czechoslovak medium tank for the army, but Š-IIc couldn’t make it to the tests – it was being rebuilt throughout the entire winter of 1937-1938, specifically by installing a new engine and real weaponry. Turret and hull were also refitted and modified. The engine was finally installed in March 1938 and the vehicle was sent in May 1938 for army tests in Milovice. This rebuilt prototype wasn’t actually half bad, it performed well – WHEN it was running (that wasn’t often, the vehicle was deemed very unreliable). In the end, there were so many issues with it that it was returned to the factory in Pilsen for yet another refit. In the meanwhile, the (hastily repaired) prototype was presented to the Soviet delegation, but its engine seized again (!) during the trials, causing the vehicle not to make the June 1938 army tests deadline – and that was the end of the T-21 as a potential Czechoslovak army medium tank.
From June to November 1938, the prototype was modified further in Pilsen, thus creating a third (and final) variant of the original Š-IIc design (not counting the further modifications, made by Hungarians – the Turán tank is basically a Š-IIc copy, with partial improvements). This third variant had (apart from the fixed engine of the same type the 2nd variant had) better tracks, improved engine cooling, improved oil pump and modified steering mechanism.
However, by that time, the Munich treason completely changed the Czechoslovak army’s priorities and selling the (improved) vehicle to the Czechoslovak army was no longer an option. Therefore, Škoda was trying to sell the design abroad. During factory trials, the third prototype performed reasonably well and was basically ready for export.
After the occupation of Czechoslovakia, that was of course no longer possible – not without German consent at least. During the early months of occupation, German delegations did visit the Škoda factory and tests were performed with the Š-IIc prototype, which, at that point, on 22.5.1939, was – to fit the German nomenclature principles – renamed to Škoda T-21 (T = tank, 2 = medium, 1 = 1st variant). Germans didn’t show too much interest in it, they wanted to test in in Kummersdorf, but in the end, it was decided by the Germans to produce an improved version, which was named T-22.
Since it was not successful in Czechoslovakia, Škoda offered this type for export, both pre-war and in the early war years (under German command). This vehicle was actually offered to Great Britain, Greece, Romania, Lithuania, Russia, Poland, Iran, Iraq, France, Egypt, Afghanistan and Bulgaria, but with little success. After the German occupation, Germans (logically) demanded the vehicle to be offered only to the German-friendly countries.
T-21 was actually offered first to Romania, but the Romanians delayed the decision, until they found out the Hungarians (their historical enemies) would license-produce it as Turán I. After that (in January 1941) they quickly demanded 216 T-21 tanks, but the Germans blocked this, because they needed the Škoda capacities for their own vehicles.
Hungary – as mentioned before – license-built the T-21. The first contact happened around late 1939. At first the Hungarians wanted to actually buy the Czech-produced vehicles, but Germans blocked that (just like with the Romanians), that’s why the Hungarian interest shifted towards the licensed production. In May 1940, negotiations took place between Škoda and Hungarian government and in June-July, the prototype was tested in Hungary, with reasonable results. Partial changes were demanded, for example replacing the original 47mm gun with the Hungarian 40mm 37M cannon, Hungarian-made radio and Hungarian Gebauer machineguns instead of the original Czechoslovak ones. The license agreement was signed on 14.8.1940, with the license-produced Škoda A17 gun being a part of them. The vehicle was renamed to Turán and served with the Hungarian army until the end of the war.
Italy also showed some interest, because the Italian tank production capacities were insufficient, while the Italian army was bleeding in Africa and in the Balkans. On 9.10.1940, Italian delegation came to Pilsen. Italians were very interested in the T-11 and T-21 tanks, but in the end, the last decision was on the Germans. In February 1941, Italians and Germans met in Berlin to discuss this matter. Initial German response was warm and it was decided a prototype would be tested in May 1941 near Rome. The results were somewhat mixed: while the vehicle had good terrain passability and handled well, overheating still was a huge problem. Italians kept on discussing the matter in Pilsen until October 1941, but in the end, the Germans didn’t approve Škoda to produce the vehicles for Italy and that was the end of it. On 13.10.1941, Italy withdrew from the negotiations.
Characteristics:
Crew: 4
Weight: 16,7 tons
Engine: Škoda V8, 13,8 liter, 240hp (earlier V6, 190hp)
Armor: Front – 30mm, sides – 10mm
Gun: 47mm Škoda A9
Speed: 50 km/h
Škoda T-22
Škoda T-22 was introduced on 4.9.1939 as a development variant of the T-21 as a response towards the German demand to produce something better than the T-21. The Germans demanded the prototype by September 1940 and the Waffenprüfamt ordered the vehicle development officially on 2.11.1939. However, by that time the war already took its toll on the German resources and due to various shortages of materials, the prototype was only ready on 1.2.1941. The prototype was not even complete – the turret was replaced with a concrete block to simulate the turret and weaponry weight. It was tested first in the factory and later (in April) it was sent to Kummersdorf, where it actually ran only for 138 kilometers, before – yes, you guessed it – the engine overheated and seized. Needless to say, the Germans were not happy and the vehicle was returned to Pilsen.
It returned to Germany in June 1941, when it during one day before the German testing committee ran 403 kilometers on a German highway. Germans were actually impressed and started discussing its production with partial changes (namely increased turret ring diameter, better escape hatches and tropicalisation, which means improved engine and crew compartment cooling system, anti-heat paint overcoat and sealing the internal space against dust and sand particles). This modified vehicle was supposed to be tested by the end of 1941 in Libyan desert.
During September 1941, the vehicle was modified according to German demands and further tests were held in Pilsen (with success, the German testing engineers were actually quite fine with it), but then, on 2.10.1941, this prototype was again sent to Kummersdorf. The tests there ended yet again with a disaster: the transmission oil lubrication broke down. That, combined with the changes on African theater, sealed the fate of the tank: the Germans lost interest. They actually ordered the prototype to be scrapped in Spring 1943, but Škoda intervened and the prototype survived – at least for now.
Please note that while Turán is also an improved version of T-21, Turán and T-22 are two quite different vehicles.
Characteristics:
Crew: 4
Weight: 17,5 tons
Engine: Škoda V8, 14,9 liter, 260hp
Armor: Front – 30mm, sides – 10mm
Gun: unknown
Speed: 48 km/h
Škoda T-23M
Partially in parallel with the T-22 development, the Czechoslovaks in Škoda Pilsen constructed – purely out of their own initiative, paid by Škoda – a third model, based on T-21 (this time, it wasn’t a reconstruction of the T-22, but a new vehicle from mild steel). There were some significant changes however: namely the pneumatic gear shifting and pneumatic steering mechanism were changed to servo-assisted mechanical ones, which were more reliable and less physically demanding than purely mechanical steering.
This vehicle was designed T-23M (“M” as “mechanical”) and was tested for the first time in February 1941. The new steering mechanism proved to be reliable, but the engine seizure issue continued to plague the prototype due to the insufficient engine cooling and repeated oil lubrication system failures. Further problems were discovered on steering brakes. That was the reason, for which the Germans specifically banned the vehicle from taking part in the October 1941 trials with the T-22.
Between 1941 and 1942, the T-23M prototype drove over 9000 kilometers in total. All the technical problems were gradually fixed and by 1942, the vehicle actually was actually in perfect shape, all the bugs and flaws fixed. Even the Germans showed some interest at that point. However, in the end, it was the one thing that the engineers couldn’t fix, that doomed this vehicle as well: time. By 1942, the vehicle was – even in perfect shape – quite obsolete and unable to handle the new generation of Soviet vehicles.
Characteristics:
Crew: 4
Weight: 18 tons
Engine: Škoda V8, 14,9 liter, 260hp
Armor: Front – 50mm, sides – 10mm
Gun: 47mm Škoda A11
Speed: 45 km/h
Epilogue
The work on T-21, T-22 and T-23M prototypes was effectively stopped in September 1943, when most of the Czechoslovak weapons development in Škoda was stopped in order to crank up the production of German-demanded weapons. After that point, very little attention was given to this line of development.
Some interest was shown by the Germans in two tank destroyer projects, based on the T-22: VOSS I and VOSS II. VOSS I was basically a 75mm A16-equipped turretless tank destroyer, while VOSS II was to carry a 150mm SIG33 howitzer. Both were made as wooden mockups, but were not further developed.
The T-21 and T-23M prototypes survived the war in Pilsen undamaged by the allied bombing. The T-23M was introduced to the Czechoslovak army after the war again, but by then it was totally obsolete (there was a project for a 105mm SPG based on the hull, but that was also scrapped). The prototypes survived until 1948-1949 and were most likely deconstructed and melted down after that.
T-21 in Hungary during tests:
Sources:
www.valka.cz
I.Pejčoch – Obrněná Technika
www.aviarmor.net
M.Dubánek – Od bodáku po tryskáče
- Storm explains “potential damage recieved” statistic: “It’s the sum of average damage of every hit recieved, because the damage counts toward this stat only when the real damage is dealt, after the armor is penetrated”
Looser78v (US server) explains:
Player asked – “Question about the “potentially taked damage” – it use average damage [stat for guns in your garage] of all hits on your tank, or the amount of damage already calculated [RNG-affected damage, which is what enemy gets, when you penetrate], but just not applied?”
Answer: “Sum of average damage for each hit.” Rest of answer should be understood in this way – Storm tried to explain why they use average damage, and not “amount of damage already calculated, but just not applied”:
-Average damage is used because actual damage [RNG-affected] calculated only after penetration, but “potentially taked damage” also count non-penetrating hits. [So how you will calculate "potentially taked damage", if you have damage numbers only for penetrating hits? Yes - by using stat-showed average damage for all hits.]
- in 0.8.6, all vehicle types will recieve same XP for the same damage done (SS: some players claimed that when currently tanks get 400XP for the same samage dealt, arty gets 200XP for the same damage, in other words, 50 percent increase for the 200XP would mean 300XP, not 400 – this calculation is wrong)
- SerB confirms that no “Klein Tiger” will come (even a heavier variant, than the unrealistically light Achtungpanzer versions), he considers it a “a fairytale for germanophiles”
- armor, that historically changes its thickness smoothly (SS: imagine a drop shape) and not by plates is in the game “simulated” as several layers of various thickness, not as smooth thickness change
- apparently, more XP for potential damage dealt won’t be implemented
- for now, there are not enough vehicles for 2nd French TD branch
- RU251 will most likely not come this summer
- Leopard 1 didn’t have its income “stealth-nerfed”
- it’s possible (if enough data are found and if there is an Israeli branch) that there will be captured Egyptian IS-3 tanks implemented, armed with something else than BL-9. Specifically, it could be premium Israeli heavy tank with D-25T gun, 250mm frontal armor and an engine from T-54 (SS: this question came from the Israeli community)
- it’s too early to say what kind of map will be implemented in 0.8.7
- T-35 is currently planned to be implemented as a premium/promo tank, not a regular one
- ZiS-4 and S-60 guns do have the same ballistic properties. Apparently, the 55-57FG Chinese gun is a clone of neither, the design works on it started in cca 1959
- SerB doesn’t consider the HEAT ricochet changes in 0.8.6 a buff